Who can save Superman now? KURT BUSIEK!

[Uncle Mxy]

IMHO, while Superman could normally lift things far heavier than 100 x his own weight, if it's a Krypton-specific-level grav field, his physiology is keyed to depower physically just as the specific radiation signature of Krypton's red sun depowers his solar-based powers.

I think that Superman deriving powers from only certain values of G force is goofier than deriving powers for certain colors of sunlight.  At least with the red sun, we visually see what's going on, so it works in a comic book.  

I much prefer the notion that there's multiple sources for his abilities (gravity for a little bit, yellow sun for the bulk), so you don't have the dorky "red sun flashlight", which struck me as way way too easy.  Why bother with Kryptonite when you can retrofit a tanning booth?  Heck, I'd prefer the notion that the red sun stuff is nonsense, that the Sun Thrivers live in every red sun and they're the ones sapping Kryptonian powers.

Kurt, do you think that people who obsess about Superman's powers and how they work are weird?  On a related note, do you have Mark Waid's phone number?  

[Kurt Busiek]

Kurt, what is your take on death in comics and the resurrection of dead characters?

Like many things, the good ones are good, the ones that aren't ain't.

There's no invariable rule -- it's all case by case.

Would you do such a return from the dead story?

Well, I brought back Wonder Man, helped bring back Hellcat, was a key player (albeit at a distance) in the return of Jean Grey...

Or would you rather use a variant like a relative or someone taking up the mantle of the deceased character instead?

I've done that, too.

What are your thoughts on how Superman was killed and revived?

While I might quibble here and there with the choreography (I have a hard time believing Superman can have that big a problem with someone who can't fly, no matter how strong they are, for instance),  I thought it was an involving and effective story and DC got an amazing amount of mileage out of it, both in terms of the story itself and its repercussions.

kdb

[Kurt Busiek]

Kurt, do you think that people who obsess about Superman's powers and how they work are weird?

Of course not.  The words "crazy sick lunatic" merely pop into my mind by sheer coincidence.  Coincidence, I tell you!

On a related note, do you have Mark Waid's phone number?  

I am not cleared to confirm or deny that information, Senator.

kdb

[Captain Kal]

IMHO, while Superman could normally lift things far heavier than 100 x his own weight, if it's a Krypton-specific-level grav field, his physiology is keyed to depower physically just as the specific radiation signature of Krypton's red sun depowers his solar-based powers.

I think that Superman deriving powers from only certain values of G force is goofier than deriving powers for certain colors of sunlight.  At least with the red sun, we visually see what's going on, so it works in a comic book.  

I much prefer the notion that there's multiple sources for his abilities (gravity for a little bit, yellow sun for the bulk), so you don't have the dorky "red sun flashlight", which struck me as way way too easy.  Why bother with Kryptonite when you can retrofit a tanning booth?  Heck, I'd prefer the notion that the red sun stuff is nonsense, that the Sun Thrivers live in every red sun and they're the ones sapping Kryptonian powers.

Kurt, do you think that people who obsess about Superman's powers and how they work are weird?  On a related note, do you have Mark Waid's phone number?  

We aren't supposed to 'see' his X-ray vision or heat vision beams but comics do portray those for us to 'see'.  We're not supposed to 'see' the magnetism of Cosmic Boy or Magneto but artistic license shows us those in pics that would be truly invisible to the characters in the fictional worlds.  Showing a grav effect is exactly along the same artistic license lines.

Superman: Last Son of Earth, while an Elseworlds, clearly is another take on the Byrned era of Superman.  That is obviously Byrned Krypton and it has a high gravity.  Clark/Kal on Earth operates at Action Comics #1 levels due to his adaptation to Krypton's environment.  So, yes, the books do have some support for the AC #1 position.

OTOH, many Pre Crisis tales show Superman's powers being halved or otherwise curtailed by high-G attacks, esp. those duplicating or exceeding Krypton's gravity.  It does seem based on the books the K-gravity was a magical number the way things are portrayed.

It must be noted in the real world that some things have specific values where an effect is triggered.  Green chlorophyll, the most abundant kind and primary pigment in photosynthesis, specifically is keyed to red light so any other kind of light doesn't activate it.  Some kinds of salamander can be triggered to change form at certain temperatures but remain essentially fishlike at others.  A certain pH level is needed for some creatures to live and others live in another pH range.  Current research on immunology shows microgravity suppresses the immune system due to subtle changes in cellular cytoskeletal organization; this could easily be extended to how a specific grav level or range would activate or deactivate Kryptonian physique powers.

What was it the First Doctor (Doctor Who) said?  "There's always a way."

It helps to have a wide and deep understanding of the real world.  As Mister T said, "Stay in school!"

Oh, and before I start slinging any 'scientific lightweight' insults (I have been remarkably forgiving on this matter while others have freely insulted those with my mindset on this, btw) around, let me quote what I said before on scientific extrapolation.l

Yes, let's forget all the brilliant stories from the S.F. greats like Fox and Hamilton that did indeed examine the scientific implications of comics super-heroes.  Let's toss out Flash's aura, vibrating through walls, super-speed time travel, vibrating to invisibility, and Superman's heat vision 'cause they 'just don't make sense'.  Those are examples of brilliant scientific extrapolations from what the powers are about and could possibly do.

I agree with JulianPerez that scientific extrapolation in comics for its own sake is somewhat sterile and useless.  It must be coupled with adding value to the stories (which the above examples abundantly do).

But to disregard scientific extrapolation altogether is sliding much too far into the other extreme.  As abundantly proven by these examples -- which I've posted ad nauseaum -- the great Silver Age writers and the legendary editor, Julius Schwartz, all subscribed to this kind of thinking.  This is, afterall, a site devoted to celebrating the Silver Age.  To denigrate this aspect of it is not in keeping with that spirit.

[Uncle Mxy]

Superman: Last Son of Earth, while an Elseworlds, clearly is another take on the Byrned era of Superman.  That is obviously Byrned Krypton and it has a high gravity.  Clark/Kal on Earth operates at Action Comics #1 levels due to his adaptation to Krypton's environment.  So, yes, the books do have some support for the AC #1 position.

OTOH, many Pre Crisis tales show Superman's powers being halved or otherwise curtailed by high-G attacks, esp. those duplicating or exceeding Krypton's gravity.  It does seem based on the books the K-gravity was a magical number the way things are portrayed.

I'd like to see Superman tales where it can be plausibly explained that he has different power levels under different conditions.  I'd like to see some John Carter-esque tales where Superman is at AC #1 levels (having been under a red sun for awhile, or having magic cut off his sun-based stuff.)   I'd like to see stories where Superman is stupendously powerful.  It's hard for me to equate "1/2 of pre-Crisis" power levels with anything other than "stupendously powerful".  Half of infinity is what, exactly?  

It must be noted in the real world that some things have specific values where an effect is triggered.  Green chlorophyll, the most abundant kind and primary pigment in photosynthesis, specifically is keyed to red light so any other kind of light doesn't activate it.  Some kinds of salamander can be triggered to change form at certain temperatures but remain essentially fishlike at others.  A certain pH level is needed for some creatures to live and others live in another pH range.

The same is true for many other chemical reactions.  I had a day job as a chemical engineer at a large chemical company in a past life.  I've had more fun with the slickeriness of sulfuric acid than most, I assure you.  There's lots of things in life that have magic numbers, but...

Current research on immunology shows microgravity suppresses the immune system due to subtle changes in cellular cytoskeletal organization; this could easily be extended to how a specific grav level or range would activate or deactivate Kryptonian physique powers.

What was it the First Doctor (Doctor Who) said?  "There's always a way."

It helps to have a wide and deep understanding of the real world.  As Mister T said, "Stay in school!"

...my argument wasn't so much plausibility, but depictability in a comic sense (which is mostly what I meant when I said "goofy").  It's difficult to denote a specific amount of high G in a comic book context.  It's easier to draw and color that red sun.  And of course, if that's the real weakness, you ask yourself why he doesn't wear gravity boots like he has Jimmy Olsen do when visiting Kandor, or why Kryptonians didn't become super tough once they figured out the magic of gravity boots.  

And as for Mr. T, I just remember the "crazy fool" part and all those gold chains.  I have to avoid Seanbaby's treatises on Mr. T lest I go mad!
http://www.seanbaby.com/stupcom/mrt.htm
http://www.seanbaby.com/stupid/mrt.htm

[Captain Kal]

Touche, Uncle Mxy, and well said, BTW.

My personal take given how the various books have -- inconsistently! -- shown this is:

1) Basic physical grav adaptation accounts for AC #1 level abilities.  That and their genetic and bioengineering of themselves to peak physical levels explains this nicely.

2) A further Kryptonian anti-grav adaptation was evolved since Krypton was so scarce in resources like food.  This ability is normally dampened to just walking around normally on Krypton, but outside their environment it is 'unloosed' much like cancerous growth without limiting factors on it.  That would operate normally around planet moving levels (note that gravity moves all mass/energy equally since its a space-time distortion).  With strain, FTL can be achieved flying but normally sublight is the best that could be achieved (see DCCP story with Chemo and Metal Men).  This anti-grav adaptation is mentioned in AC #500, BTW.  It must be noted in AC #500 that a red sun drained Superman's punches were less powerful than a flick of his solar-boosted finger.

3) The yellow sun triggers the greatest power increase that accounts for the bulk of Kryptonian super-powers, esp. the transrelativistic kind and other apparent violations of physics.

[Super Monkey]

Kurt, do you think that people who obsess about Superman's powers and how they work are weird?

Well, I am a mod here and I think it's very weird, by hey, this place just wouldn't be the same without them

[Captain Kal]

Heh

As Bill Gates said, be nice to geeks.  You'll probably be working for one [of us] one day.

 :lol: