Superman in the Silver Age

[Continental Op]

Oh, yes. I was always intending to do an examination of that Robbins story also...

I do clearly remember that the splash page of that story said something to the effect of "Now it can be revealed... for the first and ONLY time"! In other words, while it wasn't necessarily "imaginary", the story acknowledged that Jor-El and Lara surviving was NOT going to be brought up ever again, and was just for the purposes of telling one particular story.... which meant that, if anyone ever wrote a story CONTRADICTING it explicitly (which many did), it would be out of the canon. Just the opposite of the "canonical" additions that the editors eventually locked up in the attic like the comic-story equivalent of Boo Radley.

[India Ink]

Sparked by this discussion it occurs to me that there is a significant difference between most tellings of Superman's origin in the sixties and the telling of Superman's origin in Man of Steel in 1986.

When Otto Binder retells Superman's origin in Superman #146
( July 1961) --"The Story of Superman's Life"--with art by Al Plastino-- for sure Binder and Plastino must have been looking at earlier versions of the origin, and Weisinger probably spun the story idea off of those earlier origins--but while these DC staffers are in the know, they do not presume we are, and probably have built the origin on the presumption that we don't know the origin.  99% of the audience at that time would be too young to remember the older origins from the thirties and forties.

So if they are revitalizing the origin they are doing so in an un-self-conscious manner.
 

On the other hand, Byrne and Helfer know that their audience knows the Superman origin as well as they do.  The definitive origin of Superman is set in stone.  So what they are doing is subverting our expectations--turning the definitve origin inside out.  It's entirely a self-conscious effort--and the new origin draws all its strength from this.  But the underlying message in that is this:  the Man of Steel origin can't be the definitive origin, it can't be genuine or authentic.  It's the inaunthenticity of the story which is so shocking.  And if Byrne or Helfer pretended surprise that their origin wasn't taken as the new definitive origin, then who were they trying to kid?

It's funny (deliberate?--a self-conscious stunt on Weisinger's part?) that the second story in 146--by Siegel and Plastino-- is "Superman's Greatest Feats"--a story which does draw a lot of its strength from the readers' knowledge of "the rules."  The rules about time travel are that Superman can't change history.  When he does, the reader is shocked.  This isn't the way the story is supposed to happen.  Leaving the end when Superman realizes he was in a parallel reality--thus the story can work out differently because the rules in this other universe are not the same.

[SuperThinnker]

Hey, I.I.

Can you give "Great Rao", that story, "Superman's
Greatest Feast". I think I read about that on "Check
The Wonder Toy" home page, but it's been long time
since that page had pictures?

[pocketmego]

The only flaws I could find in that story was that Superman red was Kal-el and married to lois while Blue was Clark and married to Lana, though it would probably be because of balancing out instead of the more preferable personalities taking one side, it's still sad . I can identify superman more with the color Blue than the red so I would like this dude to be the one that gets lois, be Clark, and live on earth. Let's not forget the term "Lois and Clark" almost like "Romeo and Juliet" it was harmony, they were a team, but here Kal ends up with Lois, and Clark with Lana.

One could argue that it is kal-El that loves lois. Where it was the still learning and youth/Earth minded Clark that loved Lana. In those older stories Kal-El was very much the adult alien that Clark Kent grew to become.

Just my opinion.

-Ray

[pocketmego]

I dig your outlook Klar. I think I might finally have found a cool group of fans that I have some great things in common with.

-Ray

When I first saw Marvels in their infancy I thought they were crap - cheap paper, hideously drawn characters and thought the Thing looked like a walking pile of mons-turd.  

I had been termendously spoiled by the Wesinger era at DC and bear in mind this was 61-62 (I was like 6).  I later picked up an issue of Spider-man thinking it was a re-boot of The Spider from the pulps that had been featured in a warren publication, Screen Thrills Illustrated.  I disliked immensely Ditko's artwork thinking it was populated by some strange ethnic group of wierd-os.

Later when the Marvel cartoons first premiered on TV with the ultra limited animation that was basically cut out panels with music - mostly by Kirby, I was intrigued. It wasnt until 67-68 that the Kirby FF was at their height did I make mine marvel but only for the Kirby/Steranko
material.  But while reading the marvels, I always felt like I was slumming
over at Brand I. (I for "ego" as they used to say in LOCs back in the day)

And nothing made my day more than when Kirby came to DC and was doing JO and the Fourth World saga.  His Olsens were worth the price of admission and I was not at all displeased to see an Anderson or Plastino head pasted on bridging a precraious continuity from Marvelizing beloved
DC characters.  But oh - those 4 armed terrors! :shock:

By the time, Kirby had left DC I was at art school and drawing myself and not paying attention.

But after all this time, the comics I want to buy and reread are the Wesinger era DCs- pure escapist entertainment wheras the Marvel's, particularly the FF are well done but with all the fighting and epic battles, they just give me eyestrain and a headache.

Of course, what has survived thruout the years...most of the Marvels
because if one wanted to still be a heroic cartoonist then one studied Kirby and not Swan...ha!  Im spending a small fortune just to get readable comics and I will accept them in the worst condition possible as long as the pages arent brittle just so I can escape all the tumult and angst of modern day life and the harrowing adventures of being an indie
filmmaker to settle down with "Jimmy Olsen's Monster Movie".

Ya dont get the ads and LOCs in the archive editions and Id rather READ my comics then collect.

[India Ink]

Hey, I.I.

Can you give "Great Rao", that story, "Superman's
Greatest Feast". I think I read about that on "Check
The Wonder Toy" home page, but it's been long time
since that page had pictures?

If by "give" you mean scan and transmit, I can't do that because I don't have a scanner (yes, I am a primitive animal, I know).

I did briefly discuss it way back on the old DCMB on the Superman in the Seventies thread (as it was reprinted in a Super-Spec), and you can find my opinions there, but it may be worth a longer and probing review on this thread.

[Aldous]

India Ink:

I did briefly discuss it way back on the old DCMB on the Superman in the Seventies thread (as it was reprinted in a Super-Spec), and you can find my opinions there, but it may be worth a longer and probing review on this thread.

This was posted on page 7 of the DCMB SUPERMAN IN THE 70s thread on 14 January 2002:

India Ink:

And batting clean-up this ish was "Superman's Greatest Feats" from Superman 146, July, 1961, with art by Al Plastino (written by uncredited, 13 pages).

Looking back on this story, it has more meaning now then maybe it did back in the early seventies or in the early sixties when it was first printed. The basic story tells how Superman goes back in time (as he has done many times previously) expecting that he won't be able to change events (he has never been able to before) only to find that he can--he can save Krypton, save Lincoln, prevent all kinds of tragedies throughout history. Stunned by his own success, Superman returns to the present anticipating that all these feats will have turned out for nought, yet checking the history books he finds that he has indeed changed everything (and the world seems to be pretty okay still). But he puzzles out that he somehow didn't travel back in time into his universe, rather he stepped over into another twin universe's timeline and it's that one he interfered with, and in that universe time can be changed. But the longer he stays in this alternate timeline the more unsteady things become, he has to leave right away or otherwise create a "cosmic disturbance" that could destroy both universes.

There's a wealth of material on page 7 alone.

Village Idiot was prompted to ask: "As you're writing this stuff, you are saving it, right? When you 'finish,' your contributions to this thread should be re-edited into a single document and submitted to Superman homepage. I'm not kidding."

And India replied: "Actually I'm not saving it. In fact I have no idea how I would go about that. I may decide to print out a few pages for some easy reference one day. But I imagine eventually this thread will die and delete."

That last comment must surely be the quote of the week, for the SUPERMAN IN THE 70s thread is still going strong at 42 pages!  :wink:  Although, I must say that those DCMB contributions by India are something special, and valuable reading for anyone interested in the era, including the older stories reprinted in the giants.

So thank you once again to Rao and STTA for giving that material a much-needed home.

[Osgood Peabody]

Apparently, we are getting the long-awaited Silver Age Superman archives we've been pining for this fall:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1401201563/qid=1085836315/sr=1-19/ref=sr_1_19/002-3049203-0066413?v=glance&s=books

Great news for fans of the Weisinger era - this series has been long overdue!

It should contain Action 241-247, Superman 122-126 - I will try to get some confirmation next week.