Violence against women in comics is misunderstood

[Super Monkey]

Will someone please explain what the "Spider-Clone saga" is - ? - because the last time I saw a clone in "Spider-Man" was when they brought back Gwen in the mid-70s.

here: http://www.fortunecity.com/tatooine/niven/142/opinion/opi14.html

[Aldous]

The ugly truth, obligingly, did come out. It came out like a blockage in a toilet pipe .....

 

And here I was, thinking Spidey jumped during the first clone story. Gwen returning was one of the worst ideas in "Spider-Man". Was nothing learned the first time around?

And how the bloody blue blazes could Parker's original clone return anyway?!! He was DEAD, then he was BURNED. I remember the scenes well.

Anyhow, the comic pros since The Night Gwen Stacy Died have ruined everything re characters dying. I suppose the moment Gwen returned thanks to the Professor, everything was wrecked forever after.

[nightwing]

On the subject of trades versus monthlies, I'm with SuperMonkey.  Consider this example: the recent "Up Up and Away" storyline encompassed SUPERMAN #650-653 and ACTION #837-840, a total of 8 issues at a cost of what, 2.99 an issue?  That's $24 total to read the story. 

Practically the day after the story wrapped up, the trade came out with a list price of $14.99, already nearly half the original cost.  Talesofwonder.com has the book for $10.49 before shipping, 14.17 with shipping included (and if I combine the order with another book or books, the shipping works out cheaper per book).

Every book I've ordered from those guys has come wrapped tight, first in a mylar bag, then in corrugated cardboard fitted snugly around the book and, for odd-shaped books, bubble wrap strategically placed.  You're talking to a guy who picks up every copy of a book in the store to pick the best one, and TOW has always shipped me a copy I'd have picked for myself.

So for a fraction of the original price of individual issues, I get a pristine book delivered to my door and I can read the whole story at once or in parts depending on my mood.  Plus, by the time it comes out I have an idea whether the story was well-received or hated.

The ONLY thing a comic shop offers that on-line retailers don't is instant gratification.  There was a time in my collecting career when I had to have a book the day it came out, but that time is long gone.

Aldous writes:

Anyhow, the comic pros since The Night Gwen Stacy Died have ruined everything re characters dying. I suppose the moment Gwen returned thanks to the Professor, everything was wrecked forever after.

One of many reasons I can't get into Marvel.  Death means nothing in that universe, and yet people are dying all the time.  Ho-hum.

Now if someone would die and stay dead, like they did in the old Legion tales, maybe it would mean something.  But at Marvel, who's managed that?  Elektra?  Nope.  Captain Marvel? (Didn't I hear even he's due back?)  I think Reed Richards has expired about 20 times.  Now not even Bucky is dead!  I guess the only reliable corpse is Uncle Ben.

[Kuuga]

I think it mainly boils down to character death and gore, or somehow corrupting a character who is usually viewed as nice or pure (like what happened when JMS got his mits on Gwens memory) being a cheap way to cause shock and spike sales. The hero's girlfriend is simply an easy target for such tactics.

[Gangbuster]

Character deaths do not necessarily bother me, since everyone dies. But the way that these are handled are often very, very bad.

Take, for example, Lois Lane of Earth-2. At the end of Crisis on Infinite Earths, she and Kal-L went to the "paradise dimension," which was supposed to be something like Heaven. Good death. 20 years later, they return, to die useless, dishonorable deaths. Johns may not have put women in refrigerators, but he was responsible for that one (beside the fact that Infinite Crisis began with a woman being impaled on a stake.) Why couldn't they just have died happily ever after?

That said, I think that a lot of female character deaths are NOT because of some sick fantasy of comics' male audience, or a gimmick to increase sales... they are a plot device, and sometimes a good one. The death of a hero's girlfriend or mother tugs at the heartstrings of the male audience, makes you have sympathy for the main character, and really makes you hate that villain. The problem is that this is not always done tastefully or properly. (See deaths of every female character in the Giffen Justice League)

Nevertheless, I do not thing bad things happen to female characters at a higher rate than male characters. I could probably conjure up a list of "Men over Reichenbach Falls" if I wanted to. It's just more shocking when it happens to the female characters, because as guys we feel protective of them.