Pre-Crisis Villians more powerful than Superman

[Uncle Mxy]

Is Superman smart enough to simulate a particular computer in his head?
In Trinity, he was shown being able to slurp data off a CD (or maybe DVD) and parse it, which got me to thinking...

[llozymandias]

I thought Superman didn't lose his powers in that story.  He stopped I.Q.'s "solar-cure" by flying to the sun & intercepting Chemo.  Also how do we know that Kal never saw Ira's mathetical formulae before?  He probably came up with those calculations himself, when he was still Superboy.

[Captain Kal]

Superman lost all his non-muscular powers like heat vision and super-senses.  Arguably, that included any super-intelligence since the last time I checked, the brain isn't considered a muscle.

   :wink:

[Captain Kal]

Also how do we know that Kal never saw Ira's mathetical formulae before?  He probably came up with those calculations himself, when he was still Superboy.

In the absence of proof or even a hint of that, that implies he hadn't seen or done any calculations of that nature before.  You need to prove he'd seen or done this kind of thing before.  That's not in the books.

Considering that they were specifically about magnetic manipulation of the sun and how to use Chemo's specific nature to alter/correct that, that seems very unlikely, perhaps impossible.  Superboy never encountered Chemo who happens to be a unique form of artificial life.  Neither Superman nor the younger Superboy ever created life, which is where Luthor did exceed Kal-El with his artificial protoplasm.  I'd say it's impossible for Superman to have ever encountered those calculations before given the Chemo factor in them.

[llozymandias]

As i should have said Kal-El without his super-intelligence is still a genius of the caliber of an Edison, Einstein, or William James Sidis.  A genius with Kal's super-knowledge would be (to us) virtually indistinguishable from a super-genius.

[Uncle Mxy]

As i should have said Kal-El without his super-intelligence is still a genius of the caliber of an Edison, Einstein, or William James Sidis.  A genius with Kal's super-knowledge would be (to us) virtually indistinguishable from a super-genius.

Even only a moderately bright guy, with super data intake, super speed thinking, and super recall on pre-Crisis Superman level, would still come across as a total genius.  He's probably living a lifetime between ticks of a second, and has a database floating in his head that'd make the folks at Google and Encyclopedia Galactica drool with envy. That's not to suggest that Superman is "just" a moderately bright guy, but those powers sure could go a long way.  

As far as innovativeness, I tend to think that Kal-El is roughly Jor-El's equal, though both are below classic Luthor and Brainiac on the totem pole.  I don't like Kryptonian science being so horribly super.  Otherwise, why didn't they save Krypton, or prevent Brainiac from taking Kandor?  Kryptonians as a whole are horribly status quo-focused, so it's hard to fathom their being great innovators.  (The house of El must have an "innovative" gene to them.)

I've always figured that Luthor was mutated in the accident that caused him to lose his hair, raising his genius level even further, because that's the only way he'd be able to compete with Superman's prodigious intellect and mental abilities (let alone those physical powers of his).  But, he has a mental block thinking about the nature of his own super-intelligence, else he'd realize that he has Superboy's accident to thank for it and it'd sicken him to the core.  So, we never hear of it.

[llozymandias]

Actually Lex was already a super-genius before the accident.  Consider that he devised an effective antidote to kryptonite.  Superman was never able to do that, even after decades of research & experiments.  Also (in the early-mid 60s at least) Lex hated Kal for being an obstacle/barrier to Lex's greatness.  The loss of his hair had little if anything to do with Lex's hatred of Kal.  Lex saw kal as something that was keeping him(Lex) in check.  That & the fact that Kal was always sending Lex back to prison.

[Uncle Mxy]

Actually Lex was already a super-genius before the accident.  Consider that he devised an effective antidote to kryptonite.  Superman was never able to do that, even after decades of research & experiments.

Perhaps.  Superboy has the IQ of a potted plant in that story, though.  He tends to have the IQ of a low-grade moron when it comes to handling his weaknesses.  While probably necessary to tell a good story, you have to wonder how he's even somewhat bright.  He actually found an antidote and vaporized it for no good reason as Superman:

http://goodcomics.blogspot.com/2005/09/other-amazons.html

Also (in the early-mid 60s at least) Lex hated Kal for being an obstacle/barrier to Lex's greatness.  The loss of his hair had little if anything to do with Lex's hatred of Kal.  Lex saw kal as something that was keeping him(Lex) in check.  That & the fact that Kal was always sending Lex back to prison.

Of course, Lexor is always a good counterexample.  A nice Superman hostile place where the world is named after him, a hot chick likes him, etc.  I always understood "losing his hair" better than most of the other motivations more complicated than "Luthor is a bad guy".