Superman Through the Ages!K-Metal Visitor!  
  •   forum   •   DON'T MISS: "THE CONTACT!" •   fortress   •  
Superman Through the Ages! Forum
News: 2024 UPDATE!! Superman Through the Ages! forum is now securely located at https://WWW.SUPERMANTHROUGHTHEAGES.COM/FORUM - your username and password for forum.superman.nu will still work, although your browser won't know them under the new domain name. You can look them up in your browser's saved passwords.  This is the first time we have had an SSL cert, so your credentials and website activity are now secure!  Please bear with us as we update the site to the brand new, super-secure location of www.supermanthroughtheages.com! This may take some time. For more details, please see the forum update.
 
*
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 04, 2025, 08:48:23 AM


Login with username, password and session length


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: New Mark Waid interview  (Read 48738 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Super Monkey
League of Supermen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3435



WWW
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2005, 10:42:44 PM »

The ages can be summed up in one sentence.

The heroes were born during the Golden Age, grew during the Sliver Age, matured during the Bronze age, and died during the Iron Age.
Logged

"I loved Super-Monkey; always wanted to do something with him but it never happened."
- Elliot S! Maggin
MatterEaterLad
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1389


Silver Age Surfer


WWW
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2005, 11:42:53 PM »

Well, I just disagree about the Bronze Age... Cool

But the categories are fairly fuzzy and its always going to be subjective...in a way, an arbitrary year seems just as well since no one will really agree on writing quality, introduction of sci fi (in what amount) et...
Logged
Uncle Mxy
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2005, 12:23:53 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
With the exception of wonderful new writer Dan Slott, I have yet to encounter any truly wonderful new writers to emerge in the past 3 years. The crucial element to the creation of a better age than the trough we’ve been in, namely, writers that can write, is missing.

New?  Stott's been around in comics for quite awhile, just not doing the superhero genre for the most part.  

As for truly "new" comic writers, I'm a fan of Aguirre-Sacasa, Waid's one-time "replacement" on the Fantastic Four.  He took a bad editorial decision to make the FF poor and make good stories out of it in MK4.
Logged
Super Monkey
League of Supermen
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3435



WWW
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2005, 12:49:14 AM »

Quote from: "Uncle Mxy"
Quote from: "JulianPerez"
With the exception of wonderful new writer Dan Slott, I have yet to encounter any truly wonderful new writers to emerge in the past 3 years. The crucial element to the creation of a better age than the trough we’ve been in, namely, writers that can write, is missing.

New?  Stott's been around in comics for quite awhile, just not doing the superhero genre for the most part.


Poor Dan Slott, people still think he is a newbie after about 14 years working in comics! He started doing Superhero stuff then got into cartoon stuff then back to hero stuff. That's a lot of stuff Smiley
Logged

"I loved Super-Monkey; always wanted to do something with him but it never happened."
- Elliot S! Maggin
JulianPerez
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168



« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2005, 01:17:23 AM »

I've said on other threads that there is an essential difference between the mind of the fan and the mind of the professional.

There's something about fans-turned-writers though, that drives them to be perfectly average in some way. Not BAD, mind you, but...sufficient. They have tremendous enthusiasm and moderate talent. They often write insightful articles and overall are actually more interesting in the lettercolumn of their comic than in the writing of the comic itself. I'm talking, of course, about Roy Thomas, Paul Levitz, and Mark Gruenwald being the better examples of this phenomenon, with less talented ones being Mark Waid, Brian Bendis and Gerry Conway. Still, I'd rather have a thousand Gruenwalds or Thomases writing comics than a single Warren Ellis, who quite clearly loathes superheroes and everything about them, and that enthusiasm is projected into his abysmal work.

Quote from: "SuperMonkey"
Poor Dan Slott, people still think he is a newbie after about 14 years working in comics! He started doing Superhero stuff then got into cartoon stuff then back to hero stuff. That's a lot of stuff


Dang! This is news to me. Here I was overjoyed at the discovery of a new talent.

I heard somewhere that Kurt Busiek's first work in comics was a Kool-Aid Man comic.
Logged

"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
Uncle Mxy
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 809



« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2005, 02:28:05 AM »

Quote from: "JulianPerez"
Still, I'd rather have a thousand Gruenwalds or Thomases writing comics than a single Warren Ellis, who quite clearly loathes superheroes and everything about them, and that enthusiasm is projected into his abysmal work.

Not everything of Warren Ellis is my cup of tea.  But what I've seen recently of his Superman hits the mark.  I wish that all of the Superman writers would take Ellis' essay on "Why They'll Never Let Me Write Superman" to heart.
Logged
Captain Kal
Superman Squad
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 716



« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2005, 02:33:46 AM »

As I said above to Nightwing, and I'm now saying to you, Julian, you're overgeneralizing about fan-creators.

E. Nelson Bridwell, Jim Shooter, and -- your documented personal fave! -- Cary Bates are all former fans turned writers.

You've been spending too much time with Darren Madigan's tripe.  He talks like that about 'fans vs creators'.  I've seen his site and his various articles.

Bad writers don't necessarily have to be or not be fans.  I think what really distinguishes them is their lack of love for the characters that leads to them totally missing the point; that and lack of talent, of course.

For the record, Levitz isn't as bad as you make him out to be.  His era and concepts were at least as influential and compelling as anything from the Weisinger era.  Certainly he didn't suffer from 'failure of imagination' when he upgraded the LSH tech and surroundings to include transuits & telepathic plugs (which are far more credible 30th century advances than bulky spacesuits and radios of the Weisinger era), transphasic door portals, and holographic communicators.  Yeah, Dawnstar and just about any Legionnaire created on his watch sucked.  But they were daring and did challenge the 'humanoids' only mindset of the galaxy-spanning LSH.  And The Great Darkness and the Earthwar certainly rank up there with the greatest of Legion epics.  Levitz is not to be trifled with.  Levitz certainly gave a scope and vision to the 30th century that at least rivals the Weisinger era's and certainly was absent from the Bates stories.
Logged

Captain Kal

"When you lose, don't lose the lesson."
-- The Dalai Lama
JulianPerez
Council of Wisdom
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1168



« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2005, 05:19:41 AM »

There are absolutely many exceptions to the rule that fans generally are average, just as there are many exceptions to the rule that artists that write are totally lousy. The greatest examples I can list off the top of my head are Kurt Busiek, and don't forget Julie Schwartz himself, who was a fan before comics fandom existed.

As for the people you specifically mention:

I'm conflicted about Jim Shooter. Cute little Jimmy Shooter wrote the greatest Legion stories ever, bar none; his characterizations for them are their defining personalities, and his creation, Karate Kid, was possibly the first DC hero to have a personality. I'm still wowed by Mantis Morlo's artificial sun and blowing up the wrong earth. Jimbo's Superman stories were just as sharp, and he gave us the gift of the Parasite. But, like most members of Menudo, the moment Jimmy started to shave is when things started to go downhill.

Specifically, I mean his AVENGERS run, which had Hank Pym behave in a totally out of character manner: downright villainous and psychotic, constructing a robot to attack his friends and even striking his wife, the Wasp, at one point. As a result of Shooter's decisions, all the writers that work on the character had to run around and play damage control in order to allow Hank Pym to function as a superhero.

By that same note, I also wasn't a fan of "Korvac Saga." Sure, it had some funny moments, particularly with Beast and his bottles and bottles of shampoo. But Korvac lacked personality, meandered around picking up supermodels with all the desperation of a country gentleman on a constitutional stopping to sniff daisies, and his murder of the entire Avengers was a gigantic 12-page ode to viciousness, the daydream of a man forced into comics that wanted to write for THE NEW YORKER. The ending was the most profoundly unsatisfying ever, because the story was resolved without any action on the part of the characters, whose decisions and actions are supposed to drive the story. The Avengers were essentially forced into a futile battle they could not win which further they LOST, and that's not the Avengers I know, doing no credit to their resourcefulness or bravery. What, did somebody else have the Ultimate Nullifier that week? Cheesy  

True, how could anyone really triumph against a foe as powerful as Korvac? That isn't the point, though: the point is, this situation of helplessness and impotence exists only because Jim Shooter created it.

Oh, and it turns out Korvac was actually a good guy all along, adding to the senselessness and pointlessness of this entire story. Jimmy probably meant the whole Moondragon ending to be tragic and poignant...really, when I saw her with a little vaseline tear in her eye, thinking "But I will know..." the hysterical melodrama of it all made me burst out laughing.

To be fair to Jimmy's run on that book, though, Jimmy did introduce the wonderful Ms. Marvel into the Avengers, and she has remained a great character since. Ditto for the wonderful Jocasta.

As for Levitz, I never said I disliked him. I don't like Levitz, I don't hate Levitz. I nothing Levitz. In Levitz's defense, he was good at certain aspects of worldbuilding: the cute little details like Legion H.Q. being based in "Weisenger Plaza" (classy) and the fascinating tunnel system based at the center of the earth. Though generally his Legionnaires were rather dull, as you pointed out, Quislet was wonderfully gossipy and egotistical, and it saddens me that no one has thought to return him to the Legion in some form.

I am not willing to forgive Levitz, however, for invalidating the Adult Legion story and stating it never happened and further, that it never could. While the story's exection was centered on an unsatisfying Deux Ex Machina, I'm talking about the concept. We could see, ahead of time, what happens to our own Legionnaires - even some that hadn't even joined yet! It was absolutely mindblowing. It was a wonderful framework to hang and build to future stories.

Incidentally, Great Rao, how about that one for a future scan for the site? I'll do it and send it to you if your scanning hand is cramped up.

I could continue here about characters whose deaths Levitz carried out that I think was rather unnecessary and wasteful, or decisions about the Legion setting he made that were not consistent with the spirit of previous writers, but it occurs to me that all of it really is atomic hairsplitting. Levitz didn't really do anything, apart from the Adult Legion, that really bugs me. Like I said - he was an alright writer.

As for Levitz's two famous stories, I always preferred "Earthwar" to "Great Darkness." Darkness was interesting, but it didn't feel like a Legion story - more like a story that incidentally featured the Legion. "Earthwar" on the other hand, played with all the Legion toys in the toybox.
Logged

"Wait, folks...in a startling new development, Black Goliath has ripped Stilt-Man's leg off, and appears to be beating him with it!"
       - Reporter, Champions #15 (1978)
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

CURRENT FORUM

Archives: OLD FORUM  -  DCMB  -  KAL-L
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS! Dilber MC Theme by HarzeM

LEXCORP - in which Elliot S! Maggin saves the world - available on amazon kindle and in paperback
Entrance ·  Origin ·  K-Metal ·  The Living Legend ·  About the Comics ·  Novels ·  Encyclopaedia ·  The Screen ·  Costumes ·  Read Comics Online ·  Trophy Room ·  Creators ·  ES!M ·  Fans ·  Multimedia ·  Community ·  Gift Shop ·  Guest Book ·  Contact & Credits ·  Links ·  Social Media ·  Forum

Superman created by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster
No Javascript.  No Pop-Ups.  No Cookies.  No Tracking.  No Targeting.  No AI.  Never had them.  Never will.  Your privacy is assured and your humanity sacrosanct.
The LIVING LEGENDS of SUPERMAN! Adventures of Superman Volume 1!
Return to SUPERMAN THROUGH THE AGES!
Buy Comics!