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Author | Topic: Superman in the 70s |
Continental Op Member |
![]() ![]() It’s good to see I haven’t completely killed off this thread with my feeble attempts at humor. And speaking of laughable... here’s a flashback to the Seventies that should make you laugh (or more likely cringe) a bit... ******* ACTION COMICS # 457 (March 1976) Writer: Gerry Conway
Unseeing what? Why, a genuine flying saucer, hovering above the bridge on which a cargo train is crossing the river... and blasting the bridge just ahead of said train with destructive energy beams. Atop this saucer stands a gaudily garbed super-villain (think striped pants and pointy mask). "Of all the rotten BREAKS--!", snarls this mysterious figure. "Our first job, way out in the middle of NOWHERE, and look who shows up!" The villain du jour’s henchmen pop their heads out of the saucer’s hatchway nervously. They want to abandon their robbery-in-progress of these oil-tank cars below, and get while the getting is good. But the boss will not hear of it. "This is our moment of TRUTH! If we can beat SUPERMAN, we can beat ANYONE! Ever since I first developed my POWER, I’ve been PRIMED for this ENCOUNTER—SO BACK OFF!" The bad guy’s power, it seems, is spinning himself around really really fast (without making himself dizzy, I suppose). "I POSSESS THE FORCE OF A HURRICANE AND THE SPEED OF A WHIRLWIND-- AND NOTHING CAN STOP A WHIRLICANE!" The blast of compressed air that his spinning act generates wallops a totally surprised Man of Steel as he flies past above. Supes had been so preoccupied he hadn’t even NOTICED the robbery in progress below until now. (Yes, not a shining moment for the world’s greatest hero.) Superman backflips out of the path of the onrushing air funnel, and swiftly swoops down below the glowing saucer that holds Whirlicane and his men aloft. "If they hadn’t attacked me, I’d probably have passed them BY!", thinks Super-Daydreamer. "Was I TOO overconfident?", the Whirlicane actually asks himself. "My wind-blasts DIDN’T stop him!" He orders his men inside the craft to flip a switch, causing nozzles beneath the saucer to squirt streams of molten metal that covers Superman. Not just any metal: lead that blocks his x-ray vision, and prevents him from seeing where they zoom off to. The clueless criminal actually grins to himself and thinks: "Next time we meet, I’ll blast that muscle-bound KRYPTONIAN out of the sky!" Meanwhile, Superman flies into the SUN to melt the lead coating off of his invulnerable body, and returns to Earth seconds later. That’s right, the SUN. It’s just ordinary lead, so why would he do such a ridiculous thing as flying all the way to the sun and back to get rid of it? And why couldn’t he use his super-hearing to follow the escaping villains, or do any of dozens of other things that his powers (and common sense) would allow? Well, ask Gerry Conway. Julius Schwartz certainly didn’t. Even more absurdly, he flies all those millions of miles to the sun, and then returns to the EXACT same spot on Earth, to continue flying normally to his original destination from THERE, instead of just returning to earth AT his destination point. Yeesh.
(Hey, there you go… let’s call him Doctor Gravely!) Anyway, the Man of Tomorrow is taken aback by this dilemma, and asks just what he is supposed to do. After all, even Kryptonian medicine can’t solve everything (just ask anyone who ever came down with Caribbean plague fever... Oh! Cheap shot there! Sorry!) It seems that young Jon-boy’s problem is as much psychological as medical. "Physically, Jonathan is weak, ill-- deteriorating RAPIDLY! Yet, according to our tests-- he SHOULDN’T be! The fact is, in some way we can’t EXPLAIN, Jonathan has lost the WILL to survive!" Off in private, Pete whispers to Superman, explaining why he believes that only he can provide the cure. There is one slim chance Pete has been holding onto... Superman is Jon’s hero, and all he ever talks about, it seems. He has always wanted, more than anything, to KNOW SUPERMAN’S SECRET IDENTITY. Pete knows it’s a great deal to ask, but...
(Say what? I thought Jimmy Olsen was his best friend? Or Batman? Hell, even Krypto? But Gerry decides that this old hometown buddy he now barely ever sees is Superman's bestest friend ever, and so he is. Still, when would it matter to Superman WHO it was he needed to save, anyway? Would he let a stranger die if he could do something to stop it?) Superman enters the dark room where an ailing freckle-faced youth is asleep in bed. Jon wakes to see his idol standing before him. Not only that, but Superman informs his young fan that he’s about to learn one of the world’s best-kept secrets... and changes at super-speed into TV newscaster Clark Kent, before his very eyes! Instead of amazement, Jon’s reaction is one of anger. He collapses sobbing into the Man of Steel’s arms. "Why did you have to LIE to me?", he bawls. "I TRUSTED YOU-- not like the others, not like those DOCTORS telling me I’m going to get well—I trusted you—but how could you expect even a KID to believe SUPERMAN is CLARK KENT?" Superman is astonished. Jon insists that back when Lois Lane used to try exposing Clark as Superman, Superman ALWAYS proved that such a thing was impossible. "ANYBODY can wear a dumb BLUE SUIT, Superman! And you’re a SUPER-VENTRILIQUIST, so your VOICE doesn’t fool me EITHER!" As he changes back into his costume, Clark is at a loss for words. All these years of hare-brianed ruses have backfired on him. Now that he WANTS to reveal his secret, he can’t prove it. Superman tells Jon to get dressed, and soon is flying him straight through the window of Clark Kent’s office at the Galaxy Broadcasting Building. As he dons his Kent clothing once again, the desperate Man of Steel offers to let Jon witness that no one working at Galaxy will be able to tell the difference between him and the Clark they know. Jon is willing to wait and see, but at just this moment, Steve Lombard (sporting a VERY Ford-era haircut and outfit) happens to be eavesdropping through Clark’s slightly open door! Steve decides that Superman must be trying to turn the tables on him for all the mean practical jokes that the ex-jock sportscaster has played on the mild-mannered "real" Clark. So he’ll play along just long enough to turn the tables on Superman himself, and expose this lame impersonation of Clarkie! (I’m tempted to summarize the rest of the story merely by saying "Hilarious hijinks ensue!", but let’s go on...) In the hallway, Steve greets Clark and his "little chum" with a handshake and a big smile. Then he escorts them into the GBS news studio, and suddenly... rips Clark’s shirt and jacket right off in front of everyone! Lois Lane and a blond guy I suppose must be Josh Coyle are there to witness the whole embarrassing display. Of course this means it’s all a big gag and Clark isn’t REALLY Superman. Jon demands to know why Superman keeps lying to him. "If you don’t WANT me to know your secret identity, just say so!" Even Lois is appalled. "Trying to trick a CHILD-- that’s DISGUSTING, Superman!" "Absolutely ROTTEN!", laughs Steve. As he discards the rest of his civilian attire and flies off with Jon in his arms, the Metropolis Marvel tries desperately to think of how he can convince the boy of the truth. Fingerprints and voice prints won’t work, and birth records are nonexistent. "How can I prove I’m ME?", he wonders. Just then, his super-vision spies a cargo jet overhead under attack by the Whirlicane’s hovercraft. He wraps Jon tightly in his indestructible cape for protection, and then decides to give him a thrill by taking him along on a real crimefighting mission. Flying in through the jet’s open cargo hatch, Superman clouts all three of the Whirlicane’s henchmen in the jaws at super-speed with one motion. (Whirlicane and his men are all wearing oxygen masks allowing them to breathe comfortably at this altitude... I guess the cape somehow magically supplies Jon Ross with enough oxygen?) Enraged, Whirlicane starts spinning again, blowing Superman back against the ceiling of the jet. "Can’t I pull ANYTHING off without your interference?", snarls the irate villain. "Am I to be HOUNDED like some ORDINARY THIEF-- me-- the WHIRLICANE-- MASTER OF WIND AND HURRICANE!" Wanting to finish the battle before Jon gets hurt, the Action Ace kicks a recovering henchman away, and starts puffing away mightily at the Whirlicane, who yells, "Your super-breath-- COUNTERING my whirl-blast? UNFAIR!" Then Superman "ricochets" his super-breath off a wall to knock the villain down from behind, and subdues the rest of his still-dazed henchmen. Trembling, the Whirlicane fumes angrily: "I’ll-Get-You-For-This-If-- It’s-The-LAST-- Wha-What’s- - Happening--? FREEZING- - Can’t- -Move!!” "What did you EXPECT," asks Superman, "100 MILES STRAIGHT UP?" At Jon’s suggestion, Superman had been pushing the jet upward with his flight power all along, until it was high enough into the stratosphere, where Whirlicane’s power-inducing costume was frozen into uselessness by the intense cold. After dropping the bad guys off at jail, Supes is ready to admit defeat to Jon. Since his young friend has an answer for everything, he asks how JON would prove that Superman and Clark are one and the same. Jon tells him to fly to Clark’s apartment (how does he know Clark HAS an apartment?), so he can reveal the answer. The reader is treated to one of those can-you-guess-the answer-first panels... and Jon heads straight for Clark’s bathroom. No, not for the usual reasons one goes to the bathroom after a long flight, but to inspect Clark’s medicine cabinet. There, Jon is finally satisfied that Superman has been telling the truth all along! For you see, Clark has no toothbrush there... or toothpaste, or mouthwash, or aspirins, band-aids, razors or shaving cream. We don’t learn whether he needs toilet paper, though. Being invulnerable, and incapable of growing his hair under a yellow sun, Superman would need none of these things available. "Jon, in one way, you proved you’re MORE SUPER than I am!" But wait, there’s more! When they return to the hospital, the doctor happily informs Pete and Superman that Jon will pull through his inexplicable illness after all! Now that he knows the Man of Steel’s secret identity, that is. Superman apologizes to Pete for still having to keep his secret ID from his old friend, but says that at least one of the Ross family will know the magic name now. Pete and Jon wave to Superman as he flies off, while the elder Ross keeps his thoughts to himself. Pete thinks that Superman has done enough, "especially since I learned your secret LONG AGO, when we were kids! I promised myself NEVER to tell... and I’ve KEPT that promise! Now Jon and I will continue to keep your secret safe-- ALL IN THE FAMILY!"
But that’s not the worst part. Jon Ross has some bizarre lethal illness that can ONLY be cured by knowledge of Superman’s ID? What the fudge is that about, Gerry? He seemed fine to me. Superman whisks him all over Metropolis and the kid doesn't so much as cough softly. All the kid needed was a good spanking and someone to tell him to get over himself already. Not every kid can have everything he wants, you know. By the way, the Whirlicane did return not long after, in SUPERMAN #303... written by: you guessed it, Gerry Conway. As two-shot Seventies villains go, he was better than the Purple Piledriver, but that’s not saying much, is it? I would rate him below even Karb-Brak, and he was definitely no Galactic Golem. (Somebody at DC needs to hire Len Wein to write another Galactic Golem story, and fast! Make it an Elseworlds, do whatever you want, but give me Golem. My Precioussss...) Whirlicane’s temper-tantrums might make for an amusing bit of characterization, if he wasn’t presented as so uselessly self-delusional. As it is here, he could be any old goofball. Gerry might have killed Gwen Stacy over at Marvel, but he really MURDERED some Superman stories for DC. Still, I suppose he managed to tug some heart-strings somewhere with this one, and Jon went on to become fairly popular for awhile. ****** IP: Logged |
Continental Op Member |
![]() ![]() < He was willing to let his own son DIE just to keep a promise. Not a promise he made to Sperman or anyone ELSE, mind you... a promise he made to HIMSELF! Whatta Dad he was.> Grrr. That should read "a promise he made to SUPERMAN or anyone else".
Of course, even if he had promised "Sperman"... Arnold J. Sperman, the
insurance salesman who lived down the road from Pete in Smallville... he
still should have told the secret to save his own kid. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() No stop, you're killing me, you're killing me here. Really, I mean it. It hurts to think about some of the things Conway got away with. Myself, I was a devoted DC reader at the time and rarely read the Marvelous Competition--so I didn't quite understand why DC rolled out the carpet for Conway. It seems like they gave him everything a guy could want--more than any writer (even Kirby) had gotten from DC before. Heck his comics were lovingly referred to as Conway's Corner--as if that was supposed to impress us. But being DC was being flattened by Marvel--and no doubt after the ouster of Carmine Infantino, incoming publisher Jenette Kahn wanted to make a big impression on the bosses at Warner Communications--I gather in hindsight that they tried to steal Conway away from Marvel because he had lots of success over there (with Spider-Man I assume). And did Marvel zombies actually follow Conway over to DC? This isn't a rhetorical question--I really don't know. Although given my own brand loyalty while I did follow Infantino over to Marvel to read a few of the comics he illoed for them, I somehow doubt that brand loyal Marvelites would have switched to DC even for Conway's Corner. IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
![]() ![]() quote: I got a chuckle out of your (somewhat perverse) post, so maybe I should have said something about it so you didn't feel it went unappreciated. And don't you flatter yourself, C-Op... nobody and nothing can kill off this thread... IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
![]() ![]() quote: True. Don't get me started on Gerry Conway and his terrible writing for Superman. I had a bit of a rant on this page... http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/files/Forum30/HTML/004040-16.html
quote: ...in response to your review of another Gerry Conway story (on the same page), "Solomon Grundy Wins On A Monday." I think, looking back, even as a kid I had sort of an understanding (only with myself) that, say, Elliot Maggin stories (for example) were "real" Superman stories, and Gerry Conway stories were not. IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
![]() ![]() Just want to talk about India Ink's "Superman in the 70s" index for a sec... I vaguely remembered there was some discussion of a Gerry Conway story way back in the thread, and probably a review of a Solomon Grundy story by Conway. Imagine hunting through thirty pages of this thread to find what I was looking for! I went directly to the Select Character and Subject Index on p. 28 of this thread, glanced at the Solomon Grundy entry, which sent me immediately to p. 16 of the thread. In less than a minute I found what I was looking for. The Index works beautifully. IP: Logged |
Continental Op Member |
![]() ![]() Indeed it does, and India Ink deserves as much praise for it as we can give him... I worry that the index itself will become harder and harder to find as the 70s thread keeps growing, though. Even as a separate thread it would keep vanishing unless we continually add gratuitous "bumps". ******* I don't mean to bash Gerry Conway mercilessly, by the way. True, he came up with some dreadful hackwork, and I have to wonder why Schwartz let him get away with it so easily and so often. But I think he was a wildly uneven writer, not a wholly bad one. That first Conway story from #301 actually is a big favorite of mine. (I'm sure the art by JLGL and Oksner deserves a lot of the credit for that, though.) Yes, there are a few things...like the "nova-hot" heat vision and the Steve Lombard impersonation of Clark... that make me want to yell "OH, COME ON!!!", and throw the comic across the room. (Even when I was a 6-year old reader thumbing through comics at the drugstore, they did!) But on the whole, I really enjoy that Slaughter Swamp story for some reason. Conway had his ups and downs on other titles. I very much liked his Batman stories, for example, and just look how many Firestorm fans there are on the DC Message Boards. But DC shouldn't have let him go anywhere near Superman as far as I'm concerned. Conway's problem was he didn't seem to have any idea how to write a uniquely "Superman" story. Like Denny O'Neil, he seems to have had problems imagining challenges for such a powerful character. But while Denny came up with the Sandman Saga as a result, Conway came up with a Superman who acts... well, STUPID. There's no other way to put it. Time and again, his Superman acts like a real idiot and that really bothers me. Either he does absurdly unnecessary things, or he can't figure out something obvious for pages and pages. Plus, he's something of a generic hero... Conway doesn't seem to have any sympathy for what makes Superman tick, what makes him special. For the most part, his Superman stories could be easily rewritten to feature other heroes, and that's their biggest failure. I have to wonder just how much of Superman he had read before arriving at DC. (For example, see the SUPERMAN #307-309 trilogy where the "Conway-Idiot" Superman is so easily fooled into thinking he was an Earth-born mutant,not a Kryptonian. Conway's dialogue had Clark thinking that the reason he had never fully commited to Lois Lane was that he had thought himself to be an alien from a different planet. For all those decades, that had NEVER been a reason for Superman to avoid settling down with Lois! Plenty of other reasons were given, yes, but Superman never once gave any thought to that one as far as I know. The man once proposed to a MERMAID, remember? The species thing wasn't an obstacle.) IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
![]() ![]() quote: Well, yes -- you've probably hit the nail on the head, right there. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() Just so you know (and thanks for the kind words)... I am bumping up "From the Pages of Superman in the 70s" --which houses a duplicate of the index-- on a continual basis over on the Other Superman Topics board. And I plan to revise the index in the future, if there is a future (ie. if this thread isn't killed in the meantime when DC does housecleaning for their new improved message board). But I'll wait until some pages have gone by first (maybe about six pages after page 27), or else there wouldn't be much to add to the index. Back on topic: I admit that I like 301 (possibly the best Superman issue Conway did--although his contributions to the fictitious tabloid editions were respectable--but then he didn't have to adhere to continuity), but I think the strength of 301 is in Solomon Grundy (and not Superman). This probably indicates that Conway was a JLA/JSA & Gardner Fox fan back in the sixties. IP: Logged |
RonaldHeld Member |
![]() ![]() ![]() In my opinion, this thread is worthly of being continued for quite some time. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() ...And since "From the Pages..." serves me as a kind of backdoor to this thread, I've decided to let the short (3 pages) topic called "Backdoor to the 70s" die of natural causes. But before I take it off life-support I thought I would salvage some of the more valuable bits on this thread--at least the bits that haven't been already replicated here. Here's one item that I don't think I've brought up on this thread...
quote: Some corrections/additions...I did obtain a better copy of that Giant afterwards (although the cover isn't in excellent condition). Superman 207 (G-48), June 1968, with a 30th anniversary celebration cover by Neal Adams. Another one of my favourite Giants--they all seem to be favourites. I love Van-Zee and Sylvia so much--it's too bad they were used so
little. But I have to change my mind on one point: "I'd like to
think...that eventually Lois and Clark would have gotten married--" Nope,
I wouldn't like to think this. It might have happened without the reboot,
but in retrospect I think any marriage would have been a wrong move. It
was best to have Mr & Mrs. Superman and Van-Zee & Sylvia (and best
now to have the Elseworlds Generations) to show the possibilities--but an
actual marriage should never have been realized and thankfully in the
official Schwartz tenure it never was. IP: Logged |
ridley New Member |
![]() ![]() quote: I agree! IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
![]() ![]() I can't remember where on the boards I mentioned this, but I bought an old reprint comic from the local comic shop for a buck, and it contains a story from Action Comics No. 425 (July 1973) called, "The Last Moa On Earth!" The comic book itself is actually "Superman Presents SUPERGIRL Comic" No. 6 published by the K.G. Murray Publishing Company Pty. Ltd. of Sydney, Australia. The book is undated, but the Supergirl story is undoubtedly from the early 70s, as is the Superman one in the middle pages. The cover shows Supergirl in a sort of Fay Wray role, being held by a big android at the top of a tall building with fighter planes swooping in for the attack. My guess for cover artist is Bob Oksner... Supergirl has that pretty and feminine Oksner look and her legs are very shapely and sexy... (You know I love those Oksner women!) "The Last Moa On Earth!" is one of Cary Bates' most bizarre tales! The story opens with a hunter carrying a rifle in the "untamed New Zealand jungle". Right here at the start we have New Zealand and Australian readers scratching their heads: it's actually the untamed New Zealand bush, or (rarely) forest. It is never referred to as jungle. But I guess Cary, when researching this story, didn't want to confuse his American readers with an unfamiliar term. A creature suddenly charges at the hunter, a creature that looks like a giant wingless bird with powerful legs and massive clawed feet. The hunter shoots and kills the bird then squats beside his kill, alarmed and amazed at what he has before him. Back at the local "game preserve" (another term never used here... maybe Cary lifted it from a documentary on Africa) in the "village" (nope... no one calls 'em that) of Hawera, the hunter, Jon Halaway, discovers that what he killed was, indeed, a moa -- a creature supposedly extinct for the last 500 years. Halaway believes he has killed the last moa on Earth, and berates himself for causing such a tragedy. But, as he says, the creature was charging him; he had no choice but to shoot. As an aside, I do wonder what, exactly, Halaway was hunting in the New Zealand "jungle"... It certainly wouldn't have been any native animals whatsoever. In the bush he may have been hunting possums (why?)... More likely he would have to be a deer hunter or some-such, ie. after introduced species that interest North Americans. Anyhow, before Halaway leaves for the United States, he rescues the giant moa egg from its home over a hot underground spring in the bush. This was the site the attacking adult moa had been protecting. As he takes the egg, he notices "strange fumes". He charters a jet to take the egg, now protected in an incubator, back to the U.S.A. (In actual fact, nobody but nobody would ever be allowed to take such a thing out of the country. It would be an impossibility -- unless he smuggled it out illegally somehow. But on with the tale...) Landing at Metropolis airport with his prize, Halaway is met by TV reporter Clark Kent who is interested in the egg. Clark is concerned that Halaway seems ill, and when the hunter offers to let Clark come along to the private museum where the egg will be kept, Clark suggests that he drive while Halaway rests. Driving along, Clark at the wheel, it is soon apparent that Halaway has become obsessed with the successful hatching of the egg, in atonement for his killing of the mother. Suddenly Halaway has a serious attack of weakness ("like my very life were being sapped out of me") and faints. Simultaneously, in the back of the station wagon, the moa egg starts to hatch. The very next moment a young, but still very large moa erupts from the rear of the car onto the highway, and the car plummets through the barrier, over an embankment and into a lake. In a flash, Clark becomes Superman and rescues Halaway. Superman detects that the hunter is seriously ill, with a weakening heartbeat, and somehow senses that the affliction is connected to the escaped moa. At a local clinic, Superman quickly discovers that Halaway is emitting millions of unidentified micro-organisms, micro-organisms which he also finds in the fragments of moa eggshell, and deduces that the moa has "set up an organic link" between itself and the hunter, a link which is sapping Halaway's life-energy. The Man of Steel goes on a moa hunt and very soon crosses aerial paths with the huge bird which has "doubled in size the past few hours!" (er... WHAT few hours, Cary?? Hardly any time passed from when the car crashed into the lake till Superman found the moa.) Moving right along from the silly to the painfully absurd, the moa is flying by thrashing its clawed feet at super-speed. (Maybe Cary could've had the moa thrashing its rudimentary wings at super-speed. But FEET?) The moa shoots feathers at Superman which cause him considerable distress. (Artillery shells? No problem. But FEATHERS... look out!) The moa grabs Superman's shirt with its clawed feet and, due to the physical contact with the creature, Superman gets a mental picture of the area where Halaway found the egg in the first place. Superman grabs hold of the moa's legs but they come off (!!) just like a little lizard's tail, and he is left holding two moa legs while the moa immediately grows (regenerates) two new legs and starts super-speed thrashing them again!! (I'm not making this up! This is really in a 1970s Superman comic drawn by Curt Swan! Maybe they got him drunk or something....) Our bumbling Superman finally figures out that the moa wants only to get home to the area of bush, with its "strange fumes", back in New Zealand. The Man of Steel decides to set up a protective fence around the area as a "moa preserve" which will enclose both the moa and the unique underground fumes that gave it its powers. The moa, overjoyed at being back home in New Zealand, severs its life-energy link with Halaway and, presumably, everyone lives happily ever after. The End. STORY: Cary Bates IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() Aldous, Just to refresh your memory you mentioned this in passing on the Superman 233 reprint topic (over on Other Superman). You might want to take a peek there to see what I said in passing, if you haven't already. IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
![]() ![]() quote: I hadn't... ...but now I have. Thanks. IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
![]() ![]() I know Vince Colletta comes in for a lot of harsh criticism on these boards, particularly from the older and more knowledgeable comics fans... I never thought Vince was as bad as some people say, but... I don't know a lot about Frank Giacoia or his work. I know his name comes up frequently in the credits of many of my older comics... This "Last Moa" story is notable for terrible art. Giacoia over Swan is simply awful. I'm not speaking from the point of view of someone who is an expert on the technical penciller/inker relationship (although I've seen a fair bit of comics art in my time) -- but just as a real comics enthusiast and Superman/DC fan (with a lifetime love of Curt Swan's work) who knows what he likes and what he doesn't like. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() The 1950s were the "golden age" of DC inking from my perspective. All of the stories I've seen reprinted from that period looked perfectly great as inked. I don't pretend to understand why this is, I can only make some guesses. There was lots of art in the forties that was inked so-so. Even all that Quality stuff everyone admires is inked with a certain energy and will to do good work, but not always turning out so handsome as the inker might have wanted. In the sixties, and even moreso in the eighties, inking was hit and miss. Yet in the fifties, guys like Giacoia and Giella did perfectly good work. My guess is that all the fifties artists, both pencillers and inkers, were of a certain generation that had come up in the forties. The forties was time for experimenting and learning the craft. But by the fifties, all the artists had learned their tricks. Someone like Giacoia never matured as a penciller (unlike his childhood pal Carmine Infantino) but he was in the business enough time to learn how to ink in that house style that DC had back in the fifties. A kind of modified Milton Caniff style of inking. What happened after this is that many pencillers continued to change and transform, developing their own distinctive styles, moving away from the pervasive Milton Caniff trend. But a lot of the inkers from that same generation don't seem to have kept up. Their work which looked grand in the fifties, looked miserable in the seventies. IP: Logged |
Lee
Semmens Member |
![]() ![]() One inker of the 1960s who I think was outstanding was George Klein over Curt Swan, for the period 1962 (when he started) till at least 1965, although he fell away a little after this - maybe because of ill-health? (he died in 1969). In my opinion there was possibly only one inker who looked better on Swan - Murphy Anderson, who is probably my all-time favorite comic strip inker. IP: Logged |
Aldous Member |
![]() ![]() Lee, I also love George Klein over Curt Swan. And Murphy Anderson is my favourite Swan inker. Not sure where Oksner fits in there... probably at No. 3 after those two, for me. India, I think Curt Swan was becoming very sophisticated as a "realistic" superhero artist by the 70s. You know a lot more about the subject than I do. I don't really know anything about Curt. I remember you talked about a book you had, a retrospective on his life and work, I think... I have a lot of catching-up to do. But, hey, that's why I enjoy your posts... I learn a lot. In the 70s I don't think there were many inkers around who could do Swan justice. Even ones I don't mind so much like Blaisdell were clearly inadequate. Chiaramonte was another one who wasn't up to it. (Only my opinion here, of course.) Murphy was God's gift to Swan... I still can hardly believe what I read somewhere, that Swan was self-taught. I find that amazing. I'm in a rush here... But I'd still like to talk about this some more... IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() I'm shamefaced to admit I've only read pages here and there from my copy of Curt Swan: A Life in Comics and not the entire thing. A lot of it is just other people talking about Swan (Shooter, Maggin, et al). The really great thing about the book is the pictures--many of those great Swan images we all can remember, but also some of his pencils that we never saw. It's when you see the pencils that you realize how amazing the man really was, and how so few inkers could capture that magic. Anderson was a great penciller himself and I think he enhances Swan's pencils, adding some of his own personality to the work. Which is why Anderson could fake a good Swanderson on his own full art, or over the pencils of others like John Calnan and Howard Chaykin. Other than his Lois Lane, I think Bob Oksner's inks are rather close to Swan's own style. A Swoksner image is probably closer to the real Swan pencils underneath. But sometimes you want that added flavour that an inker like Murphy Anderson (or George Klein) can bring to the work. But when evaluating inks, I try to look at them in two ways. For instance I don't like what Jack Abel's inks did to Swan, but if I evaluate the art on its own merits I can't discount it. Abel is clearly talented and offering us a unique image. Some of Abels work over Swan on Superboy and the Legion still haunts me to this day. A compelling vision. Likewise Stan Kaye of Sheldon Moldoff did a good job on earlier Swan because they were inking in that house style I talked about--they may not have brought out all the nuances of Swan's pencils, but their inks are solid, confident, even elegant. IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() Time to salvage some more from "Backdoor to the Seventies" (kind of related to the Van-Zee and Sylvia story). I mentioned this much earlier on this thread, but I don't believe I posted any of it here:
quote: IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() The above piece was from the same issue that featured Elliot S! Maggin and Cary Bates (shown on the cover as illustrated by Kurt Schaffenberger). I transcribed the whole darned interview with Bates & Maggin, by Guy H! Lillian, from that issue onto the "Backdoor..." thread. But much later, the Superman through the Ages site gave its own transcription of the interview. Which currently can be found at this link: https://www.supermanthroughtheages.com/theages/Creators/men-behind-super-typewriter.php IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() Kinda neat that I get a typing credit on that page (my grade eleven typing teacher would be proud--makes up for the C- she gave me). IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() To finish up salvaging remains of the dead "Backdoor to the 70s"... I included a link to "Superman through the Ages" related to "Who took the Super out of Superman" (Superman 296 - 299) and copied part of a conversation with Elliot S! Maggin from that site, related to his argument with Schwartz over changes that the editor insisted upon--including changes to a Perry White back-up story. Which then generated this (edited down) exchange... BuddyBlank quote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The next question in the interview should have been something along the lines of, "How did the story originally end, and what did Julie change?" Ah well, maybe someday we'll know... If anyone ever finds out what this story is or what issue it was in, please lemme know!
It was in Action 461, July '76. A five or six page Perry White back-up
story, with some of Tex Blaisdell's worst inks over Swan. While the Manhattan Project connection might have made for a slightly better story, the scope of the story is so small (a simple anecdote told by Perry to his grandkids) that it doesn't seem to deserve such an epic struggle between writer and editor.
"The Toughest Newsboy in Town," 6 pages. The GCD index erroneously credits this one to Bob Rozakis... http://www.comics.org/details.lasso?id=29970 Easy mistake to make, as the writer credit isn't there, while Bob Rozakis is credited as "cub editor" in keeping with the "cub reporter" angle of the Perry White tale. But Bob here obviously is working as an assistant editor to Schwartz--not as a writer. Pity poor young Bob Rozakis caught in the middle of so much drama between his boss and a fellow comics fan-writer--so early in his career at DC! *** So could Rozakis have done the re-write to Maggin's story? In which case, it's entirely possible that the GCD happens to be correct...
It's possible that Rozakis did the re-write--although even then it
wouldn't mean that he should get full credit for the story. Schwartz could've re-written the story himself (which I assumed to be the case, after reading Elliot's comments). Or he could have handed it over to Rozakis--here's a throwaway back-up story, Bob, see what you can do with it. It's even possible, given the shortening of page lengths in DC books at the time, that the story had to be edited down to 6 pages. *** You can probably pick a Rozakis story based on content alone. I don't think I have this story -- but Rozakis was the worst writer at DC, and maybe even the worst writer in comicdom. Rozakis rewriting Maggin is surely an insult. Maybe an insult is what J.S. intended. *** IP: Logged |
India
Ink Member |
![]() ![]() India Ink Member posted August 01, 2002 06:26 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well let's not send Rozakis on the road to perdition without any evidence. The story has the earmarks of a Maggin story, not a Rozakis. The references to Einstein, the familial dynamic in the White home. All very Maggin. *** And with that, the Backdoor to the 70s is toast! IP: Logged |
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