Superman Through the Ages! Forum

Obviously Uncle Morty and others read wildly, and obviously nothing in the book is a direct 1:1 correlation, but the idea that a horrific kind of punishment might be to be invisible, intangible, and unable to interact with the world...might have been inspired by Dickens's novel.

Take for instance, this passage:

Robert Bernstein certainly had the background where he would've been exposed to that.  The man is an unsung luminary, no doubt about it.

It seems a bit of a stretch for me, one being a place for those to go who have died with a long history of selfish deeds, the other a place to remove criminals to...the thing about the PZ to me was that the people retained all their physical appearance and desires though it seems like it might have been entertaining to be able to observe the universe like they could...

But I suppose there could have been some inspiration there...

I always assumed (insofar as I ever really gave it any thought) that the Phantom Zone was a version of Hades as described in Greek mythology, especially the bit about paupers and people who have no friends being doomed to wander aimlessly along the banks of the Styx since they hadn't got the obole to pay for passage. An HG Wells short story also describes an out-of-body experience during which the protagonist witnesses the disembodied souls of the insane drifting around in similar fashion.

I have to say, though, that Dicken's evocation certainly does seem a lot like the Phantom Zone, especially the bit about the souls trying powerlessly to interfere in human affairs, something that Zod and co. are always trying to do.

It should be noted that earlier in this conversation, Marley's Ghost said to Scrooge, "I appear before you visible for but a single night. Many nights I have sat beside you invisibly." Scrooge shuddered at the obvious horror of this, but it does indeed sound very PZ-ish.

As an aside, despite the fact that this scene is so terrifying, the majority of film adaptations of A CHRISTMAS CAROL don't usually have it. The only one of the really "big" adaptations that has it is the John Barrymore technicolor version. The Barrymore version has Scrooge stare out a window to see hideous, barely substantial and transparent imps and elves dancing. I don't know whether it's the faded technicolor, but it was something you see under bad acid.

Actually it is very clear that the Phantom Zone was directly inspired by the "Empty Doom" which appeared in the serial "Atom Man vs Superman".  Luthor, as the Atom Man, uses a device to banish Superman. (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v396/Avilos/atom001.jpg)
Just look at the last picture. While inside this "Empty Doom" Superman is able to watch people in our world as a PHANTOM. HE manages to use his mind to effect a typewriter to type a message for Lois. Who uses the machine to bring
Superman back. Sound familar? It is exactly the same concept, just that Luthor discovers it on his own.

That makes a lot of sense.

Well I am not the first one to make the connection. But the first time I ever saw that serial the similarities were clear to me. Even without knowing others had made the connection. It is certainly one of the biggest things from a Superman media adaptation to be added to the comic books. But it is rarely listed along with Kryptonite, Perry, and Jimmy for some reason. Maybe because the name is different. Or just that so few people have seen the serials.

Marley wants to help where he didn't in life.  But he's "deader than a doornail."  It's impossible to redeem once you are dead.  But not on Krypton.  It is possible to leave the PZ.  Maybe the plan is that PZers will share Marley's remorse and thus be rehabilitated?  I'd like to think so anyway.  We need that here in real life....

Honestly, it could probably be inspired by the idea of phantoms itself, or any reference to them. I wonder where the idea of ghosts or phantoms originated?...I know these ideas are ancient.

I didn't watch that serial all the way to the end, but it makes sense. Personally, the Phantom Zone reminds me more of Purgatory ( being a state in which one is serving a sentence but cannot die) or Hades. It's a good thing the PZ ray doesn't turn people into zombies instead....

I have both the serials... but have not watched them in years.  I do recall Superboy, while trapped in the PZ, used the same trick to "type" a message to Pa Kent as to how to get him out of the Zone.. it's posted here on STTA

Dickens was obviously not a student of Pauline theology.

Many people think that mainstream Christianity teaches historically that salvation is based on helping people and living a humane life, but that actually represents the position of Zoroastrianism (Pauline Christianity teaches that going to Heaven only serves as a function of your belief in the resurrection of Jesus). Islam teaches that salvation is based on the law. However, this crucial aspect of Pauline theology has roundly been ignored in TV or movie adaptations of Heaven and Hell, except for the recent Constantine (John Constantine) film-Constantine is told that faith is needed for salvation, but since he *knows* that cannot save him.

Before we find out if there ever was an epic confrontation between Superboy
(or man) and the Phantom Zoners, let's look into the origins of this tale a
little deeper. Anybody who'd been reading comics for a little while in 1961
might've noticed an eerie resemblance between the "Phantom Superboy" and a
tale published only a couple of years earlier called "The Ghost of Lois
Lane!" (_Superman_ #129, May 1959, by Jerry Coleman, Wayne Boring, and Stan
Kaye).

The splash page shows Superman in his Fortress, confronted by a ghostly
figure of Lois Lane. He moans, "Lois ... why don't you stop haunting me?
You know I didn't mean to kill you... that it was all an accident!"

At the Daily Planet office one day, a glib salesman tries to sell Jimmy an
electric typewriter. "It's so sensitive I can move the keys just by blowing
on them!" says Jimmy.

Lois then goes to return a briefcase to a Professor Grail, hoping, of
course, for an interview. The Professor needs the case for a conference
he's leaving to attend soon, but Lois (who has been associating with Jimmy
too much, apparently) has forgotten to bring it with her. The Professor
forgives her and gives her a tour of his lab, where he's conducting
teleportation experiments. Meanwhile, Perry has asked Superman to deliver
the briefcase. Using his X-ray and telescopic vision, Superman spots Lois
just as she sits in the Professor's teleport chair. But something in
Superman's powers interacts with the machine -- there's an explosion -- and
Lois disappears!

Grief-stricken, Superman searches the wreckage only to be confronted by a
mute spectral image of Lois. Then, she's gone. Thinking it was a
hallucination, Superman returns to Metropolis. But everywhere Superman
goes, no matter what feat he tries to perform, the spectral image of Lois
keeps appearing and disappearing before his eyes. Convinced Lois blames him
for her death, Superman flies off into space hoping to escape from the
earth-bound apparition, but to no avail. Desperately he switches to Clark
Kent and returns to the Daily Planet, hoping Lois still doesn't know his
secret identity. But she appears there also. Clark blurts out to Perry and
Jimmy that Lois is there, but they see nothing. Just as Perry is counseling
Clark to take a vacation, Jimmy's typewriter starts typing by itself. Lois
is using her brainwaves to make the super-sensitive typewriter work. She
tells Clark that she's stuck in the fourth dimension and that Superman can
rescue her by reversing the Professor's machine. (There is no explanation
as to how Lois knew it was the fourth dimension. Obviously it wasn't the
fifth, but why not some other number?) It turns out that when Superman used
his X-ray vision he was able to peer into the fourth dimension and see
Lois's spectre. Fortunately, Lois couldn't see back very clearly, so she
never saw Clark change to Superman.

Readers who had been around even a little longer than that might have
remembered _Jimmy Olsen_ #12 back in April, 1956. I've never read this
issue, but the cover depicts an invisible Jimmy Olsen pleading with
Superman that he's trapped in the fourth dimension and that no one can see
or hear him. How much would you bet he used an electric typewriter to
escape?

But wait, there's more! In 1950, the movie serial "Superman vs. the Atom
Man" featured a sequence in which Luthor teleported Superman into another
dimension he called "The Empty Doom". Superman sent a message to Lois Lane
via an electric typewriter which told her how to rescue him. Writers George
Plympton and Royal Cole apparently got the idea from a recent _Action
Comics_ (#131, April 1949) in which Luthor used a ray to transport Superman
into the fourth dimension. The story, "The Scrambled Superman," was written
by Joe Samachson and drawn by Al Plastino. I haven't read it, but Rich
Morrissey has, and he says Superman used the same electric typewriter
gimmick to tell Lois Lane how to rescue him from his disembodied state.
When editor Mort Weisinger found a gimmick he liked he used it over and
over (and over and over).

The concept goes back even further than that, however. In his 1942 story
"Beyond the Farthest Star", Edgar Rice Burroughs used the thought-powered
typewriter to explain how he learned of the adventures of his interstellar
traveling hero. I can't swear this is the first time the idea was used.
It's probably as old as electric typewriters themselves.

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/other/kryptonian-cybernet/kc61.txt

Wow Enda... what a post!

I didn't realize that the PZ, or something like it, was used THAT long!

I am rewatching the Atom Man serial.  Enjoying Kirk Alyn a LOT!  The Empty Doom is reminding me of the PZ, but haven't gotten to that part of the serial yet.

Chapter Six IIRC

Really? Then how did she read the letters of the alphabet on those itty-bitty typewriter keys?

I have seen plenty of people who can type at a professional level, like Lois Lane, never look down at their keyboard, or in this case typewriter.

To correct an error in this thread, neither John or Lionel Barrymore played Scrooge in a film; you must have Reginald Owen or Alistair Sim in mind.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434035/plotsummary
Lionel did a special trailer for the Reginald Owen version, hence the confusion.

Lionel Barrymore regularly played Scrooge on the radio.  And Michael Barrymore is playing Scrooge in the new musical stage production.

Which is the least of his problems! http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=551&id=1402952006 (http://news.scotsman.com/topics.cfm?tid=551&id=1402952006)

All this is interesting stuff - proof that the Phantom Zone, as a concept, has something of a pedigree and didn't just pop out of nowhere. With Superman, it's not unusual to have variations on an idea "flicker" years and years before the famous idea, the "original formula" shows up as we know it. There was a Supergirl prior to Kara in a 1940s issue. K-Metal came before Kryptonite, and so forth.

Great post, you are like the Bizarro-Julian with your facts and your logic ;)





Sorry, JulianPerez :-* hey someone needs to give Kurt Busiek a reason to keep posting here  ;)